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Three "Fantasy" Lugers

Legacy Collectibles
Published on August 25, 2023
Category: Gunsmithing & DIY
Duration: 26:31

This video provides an in-depth forensic analysis of two "fantasy" Luger pistols, a purported 1904 Navy and a 1939 Krieghoff. The instructor meticulously compares these firearms to known genuine examples, highlighting subtle manufacturing differences, proof marks, serial number placement, and part variations. The analysis concludes that both firearms are likely assembled from mixed parts or are outright fakes, offering valuable insights for collectors on identifying potential discrepancies and understanding the nuances of Luger production.

Tags

Luger 1904 Navy
Luger 1906 Navy
Luger 1939 Krieghoff
Luger 1938 Krieghoff
DWM Luger
Mauser Luger
Navy Luger
Fantasy Luger
Mystery Luger
Firearms Authentication
Firearms Forensics
Firearms Parts Identification
Firearms Serial Number Analysis
Firearms Proof Marks

Quick Summary

Genuine 1904 Navy Lugers are exceptionally rare, with fewer than 150 made and only about 20 known examples, potentially valued around $100,000. Key authentication points include specific Navy markings, a 'fat' barrel, correct toggle link, absence of proof marks on fakes, and WWI-era parts like a non-fluted firing pin.

Chapters

  1. 00:00Introduction to Mystery Lugers
  2. 00:58The 1904 Navy Luger - Initial Assessment
  3. 01:32Examining the 1904 Luger in Question
  4. 03:22Navy Luger vs. Standard Luger Comparison
  5. 04:14Distinct Features: Rear Sight and Barrel
  6. 05:02Font Styles on Early Lugers
  7. 05:34Forensic Look at the Mystery 1904 Luger
  8. 06:15Navy Markings and Barrel Characteristics
  9. 07:00Unusual Rear Toggle Link on 1904
  10. 07:16Reference Book: 1904 Navy Lugers
  11. 08:36Rarity and Known Serial Numbers of 1904 Navy Lugers
  12. 10:19Comparison: Genuine Navy Luger vs. Mystery Gun
  13. 10:50The Good: Witness Marks
  14. 11:47The Bad: Toggle Link and Lettering
  15. 12:32Proof Marks on 1904 Lugers
  16. 13:05The Ugly: Toggle Fit and Firing Pin
  17. 14:45Close Look at the Mystery 1904 Luger
  18. 15:37Disassembly: Firing Pins and Barrels
  19. 16:20Instructor's Opinion: Is it a Fake?
  20. 17:34Conclusion: Made from Leftover Parts?
  21. 19:14Recalling a Past Fantasy Luger
  22. 19:53The 1939 Krieghoff - A Slam Dunk Fake?
  23. 20:39Investigating the 1939 Krieghoff
  24. 21:09Krieghoff Toggle Assembly Analysis
  25. 22:07Comparing Krieghoff and Mauser Markings
  26. 22:43Krieghoff vs. Mauser Frame Comparison
  27. 24:13The 'Dimple' on Mauser Frames
  28. 24:49Genuine 1938 Krieghoff Analysis
  29. 25:02Conclusion: 1939 Krieghoff is a Fake
  30. 25:34Magazine Analysis on the Krieghoff
  31. 26:14Final Thoughts and Book Availability

Frequently Asked Questions

What are the key indicators of a fake 1904 Navy Luger?

Key indicators of a fake 1904 Navy Luger include the absence of specific Navy markings (like the Crown M), incorrect barrel features (e.g., not being 'fat'), non-matching or altered serial numbers, incorrect toggle link design, missing proof marks on the receiver and frame, and the presence of a World War II era fluted firing pin instead of a WWI era non-fluted one.

How can one distinguish a genuine Krieghoff Luger from a fake?

Genuine Krieghoff Lugers can be identified by specific font styles on markings, the presence of a 'Mauser hump' on Mauser frames (though not all have it), the absence of a 'dimple' at the top of the stock lug cutout on DWM and Krieghoff frames, and correct magazine markings and placement. A 1939 Krieghoff is considered nonexistent, making any example highly suspect.

What is the significance of the 'witness mark' on a Luger barrel?

The 'witness mark' on a Luger barrel is a small line or scratch made by the gunsmith when the barrel was originally screwed into the frame. It serves as a reference point to ensure the barrel is properly aligned. If the witness marks on the barrel and frame no longer line up, it strongly suggests the barrel has been removed and potentially replaced or altered.

Are there any specific books recommended for identifying rare Luger models like the 1904 Navy?

Yes, the video specifically recommends '1904 to 1940 Navy Lugers' by Dave Mulchin. This book is presented as a critical resource for collectors seeking to authenticate rare Navy Luger variants by providing detailed information on known serial numbers, features, and historical context.

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