Dangerous Liberty Ep154 - Marcus, Chris - Text Messages, Trip To UVU, Israeli Involvement and More!

Published on October 9, 2025
Duration: 177:42

This episode of Dangerous Liberty Podcast features a deep dive into the ballistics and circumstances surrounding the Charlie Kirk shooting. Hosts Marcus J. Allen and Gary, along with guest Chris, discuss their ongoing investigation, including ballistics testing with various .30-06 rounds, the challenges of determining angles of impact using Google Earth versus precise 3D surveying, and the debate around the presence and effect of body armor. They also touch upon witness testimony, potential shooter locations, and the complexities of forensic evidence analysis.

Quick Summary

Experts are investigating the Charlie Kirk shooting, focusing on ballistics testing of .30-06 rounds which revealed significant zero differences, particularly with Federal TXs ammo shooting high and right. They are using 3D drone surveying to get accurate angles of impact at UVU campus, as Google Earth data is deemed unreliable. The debate continues on whether body armor was present, with modern thin armor being a plausible factor in explaining wound characteristics.

Chapters

  1. 00:05Intro to Dangerous Liberty Podcast
  2. 00:38Welcome & Guests: Dr. Chris & Marcus J. Allen
  3. 01:07Chris's Fishing Trip & Marcus's Range Testing
  4. 01:30Mock Setup: 9 Degree Angle, 143 Yards, .30-06 Variants
  5. 02:00Focusing on Facts & Ballistics Deviations
  6. 02:20Gary's Video on Trauma to TripleC
  7. 02:33Terminal Ballistics Testing Status
  8. 03:07Upcoming Trip to UVU for Geo-Measurements
  9. 03:40Importance of Accurate Geo-Measurements at UVU
  10. 04:383D Drone Surveying for Precision Terrain Data
  11. 05:03Potential Angle Changes Based on New Data
  12. 05:36Google Earth Elevation Errors
  13. 07:48Google Earth Measurements vs. In-Person at Butler
  14. 08:30Speculation on Google Earth Inaccuracies
  15. 09:16Podcast Chat Rules & Format
  16. 10:02Marcus's Range Results: .30-06 Ammo Testing
  17. 10:25Testing M2 Military Ball, Hornady Superformance, Federal TXs
  18. 11:33Federal TXs: 4 Inches High, 4 Inches Right at 100 Yards
  19. 11:56Theory: Aiming Center Center with Soft-Tip Ammo
  20. 13:26Bad Fundamentals or Steady Position as Factors
  21. 13:411966 .30-06 Ammo for Testing
  22. 14:10Different Zeros with Different Ammunition Types
  23. 14:22Chronograph Data for M2 Military Ball
  24. 15:19Velocity Differences and Harmonics
  25. 16:23Angle Changes and New Questions
  26. 16:45Ballistician's Input: Different Shooter Position & Ammo
  27. 17:31Need for 3D Rendering of the Area
  28. 18:14Sharing Data Publicly to Find the Truth
  29. 19:17Chris's Stance: 60/40 on Ballistic Protection
  30. 19:30Frangible Round Theory & Impact on Injury
  31. 19:50Visual Analysis of Impact Location (Chest First)
  32. 20:10Plausibility of Fragments Intersecting T1 and C-Spine
  33. 20:57Fragmenting Round Speculation
  34. 21:11No Convincing Evidence of Rounds from Different Directions
  35. 21:42Shift in Position: 10% Possibility of Different Direction
  36. 22:00Credibility of Steven Gardner's Information
  37. 22:11Difficulty Explaining Cervical Spine Damage from Front Entry
  38. 23:02Focus on Front Entry vs. Side Angle Shooter
  39. 23:26Eyewitness Accounts vs. Ballistics
  40. 23:55Original Theory: Shot from the Front, Ballistics Unexplained
  41. 24:25Blow Out C2: Fragment Size and Impact
  42. 24:46Steven Gardner's Descriptions: 'Crashed Into'
  43. 25:21Stephen Gardner Based in Utah
  44. 25:42Zeb Boyin's Theory: Shot from 4 O'clock Position
  45. 26:34Inviting Guests with Cogent Ideas
  46. 26:57Hangman's Fracture: C2 Fracture and Instant Incapacitation
  47. 27:37HIPAA Laws and Medical Information Release
  48. 28:28Theory on Information Sharing within Charlie Kirk's Circle
  49. 29:08HIPAA and Court Evidence
  50. 30:24Skepticism of Hearsay and Evolving Claims
  51. 30:58Staying Steadfast in Fundamentals: Marine Corps Scout Sniper Experience
  52. 31:15Not Disrespecting Enemies: Professionalism of Hit Teams
  53. 32:00Visual Evidence vs. Left/Right Shot Theory
  54. 32:13Sloppy Move for a Professional Team
  55. 32:32Involvement of FBI, Medical Staff, and Examiners
  56. 33:15Biggest Problem: Wound on Neck as Exit Wound
  57. 33:27Steven Gardner's Video: Front Wound, Not Side Entry
  58. 33:57Feasibility of Hydrostatic Shock Wave Damage
  59. 34:07Whiplash Injury Causing Hangman's Fracture Type Injury
  60. 34:34Bullet Fragments in C2-C6: Upward and Downward Movement
  61. 35:00Truth Brings Clarity, Lies Open More Questions
  62. 35:43Focus on Ballistics as the Unexplained Element
  63. 36:04Anomalous Behaviors and Variables in Ballistics
  64. 36:33Reviewing Super Chats and Future Plans
  65. 37:02Drop in Elevation from Building Foot to Speaking Area
  66. 37:10Surprising Elevation Difference at UVU Campus
  67. 37:54Submitting Video Footage
  68. 38:5417 HMR 2500 ft/s Plausibility
  69. 39:03Problem with Smaller Caliber Rounds vs. Larger Round Impact
  70. 39:42Autopsy Release Timing
  71. 40:02Public Demand for Proof of Tyler Robinson's Guilt
  72. 40:24Security Team's Role and Presumption of Innocence
  73. 41:17Invisible Body Armor Debate
  74. 41:39Visual Discrepancies and Body Armor Possibility
  75. 42:00Respect for Gary's Expertise in Body Armor
  76. 42:41Considering All Possibilities: Body Armor
  77. 43:03More Evidence for Body Armor Than Against
  78. 43:14Inconsistency in Public Beliefs: Second Shooter vs. Body Armor
  79. 44:09Cognitive Dissonance in Public Theories
  80. 44:20Other Theories: Drone, Bird, Explosive Mic, Hologram
  81. 44:36Erica's Statements and Beliefs about Tyler Robinson
  82. 45:01Cherry-Picking Statements about Body Armor
  83. 45:14Contradictory Statements Around Body Armor
  84. 45:43Ballistic Panel on Back at Time of Shooting
  85. 46:03Gary Leaning Towards Body Armor, Marcus Leaning Opposite
  86. 46:24Body Armor More Plausible Than Drones or Aliens
  87. 47:06Charlie Kirk Worried About His Life Before Incident
  88. 47:17Body Armor Sponsorship Issues
  89. 47:41Modern Body Armor vs. Older Perceptions
  90. 48:03Israel Implication and Concerns about Right-Wing Language
  91. 49:11Body Armor Would Make Ballistics Make More Sense
  92. 49:21Body Armor Explaining No Exit Wound and Fragmentation
  93. 49:57Ballistic Gel Shoot of Frangible Ammunition (.308)
  94. 50:31Frangible Round Fragmentation Against Level 3A Armor
  95. 51:07Thermal Imaging and Potential Shooter Locations
  96. 51:52Bush on the Landing vs. Roof Above Bush
  97. 52:50Ian Carroll Video and Angle Changes
  98. 53:17Collaboration with Zeb, Ian Carol, Chris Martinson
  99. 53:40George Webb and DQ Shutdowns
  100. 54:44DQ Candace References vs. George Webb's DQ
  101. 55:31JFK Multiple Shooters Discussion
  102. 56:08JFK Conspiracy and Multiple Shooters
  103. 56:43Difference Between JFK and Current Event Investigations
  104. 57:10Isolating Events vs. Grand Conspiracy
  105. 57:33Tyler Robinson's Potential Involvement with Others
  106. 57:44Israel's Potential Involvement
  107. 58:25Supersonic Event Confirmed
  108. 58:40Inability to Fake Supersonic Crack
  109. 59:13Easier Ways to Align Trajectories
  110. 59:40Possibility of a Body Double
  111. 60:00DNA on Gun and Charging Documents
  112. 60:20Devil's Advocate: Tyler Told to Be There, Not Shooter
  113. 60:55Deduction: Figuring Out What Something Is Not
  114. 61:11Patsy's Purpose Fulfilled When They Disappear
  115. 61:42Powerful People Shutting Down Patsies (Epstein Example)
  116. 62:01What If Tyler Was Told to Be There?
  117. 63:00Cameras Everywhere: Easy to Prove or Disprove Presence
  118. 63:33Complicated Investigations in the Digital Age
  119. 63:57Rhetorical Question: Would Analysis Change if He Doesn't Make Trial?
  120. 64:03Patsies Don't Stick Around to Talk
  121. 64:25Powerful People Don't Act Carelessly
  122. 64:34Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power: Keep Your Hands Clean
  123. 64:45Nation States with Access to Hitmen
  124. 65:01Playing 40 Chess: Sloppy on Purpose
  125. 65:13Chris Agrees with Marcus on Plausibility
  126. 65:50Evidence Seen vs. Actual Evidence Available
  127. 66:16FBI's Job: Convince a Jury, Not the Public
  128. 66:25Prosecutor's Confidence in Evidence for Charges
  129. 66:53Bluebird Offering Farm for Long Distance Range Testing
  130. 67:13Addressing Comment Deletion Policies

Frequently Asked Questions

What are the key ballistics findings from the .30-06 testing?

Testing with M2 military ball, Hornady Superformance, and Federal TXs .30-06 rounds revealed significant zero differences. While M2 and Hornady grouped well with consistent zero, the Federal TXs shot 4 inches high and 4 inches right at 100 yards, suggesting potential lot variation or different ballistic properties.

How accurate are Google Earth measurements for determining angles of impact?

Google Earth measurements for elevation and angles of impact can be inaccurate, especially with complex terrain and building heights. A 3D surveying drone with inch-level precision is planned for the UVU campus to obtain more reliable data for calculating angles.

What is the current debate surrounding body armor in the Charlie Kirk shooting?

The debate centers on whether Charlie Kirk was wearing body armor. While some visual cues suggest he wasn't, the possibility of thin, modern body armor affecting ballistics and wound characteristics without being obvious is considered plausible by some investigators.

How does frangible ammunition behave upon impact?

Frangible ammunition is designed to fragment upon impact. Testing shows significant fragmentation within a very short distance, even against ballistic gel. This behavior is relevant to understanding how such rounds might interact with body armor.

What is the significance of a supersonic crack in ballistics analysis?

A supersonic crack is a verifiable event indicating a projectile has exceeded the speed of sound. Its detection and origin point can provide crucial data in ballistics analysis, confirming a shot occurred and its general direction, even if other details are debated.

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